Comments on: The Best Milk Bread Recipe Experiment Ep 1 | Chopstick Chronicle (Yudane) vs 우미스베이킹 Umi’s Baking (Tangzhong)

By: Carlienne

Carlienne — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:38:35 +0000

In reply to LuxMoien.

Hi LuxMoien, we appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment! Much of history will remain disputed indefinitely – what really amazes me is just how discoveries and experiments over time give us such wonderful things, even things that we may use every day but never really understand. I am grateful for all the work done before me! You are correct that there is so much from Japanese culture and invention – especially food – that is desirable to the entire world (we ourselves are great fans of many Japanese things). Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thoughts!

By: LuxMoien

LuxMoien — Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:43:54 +0000

Hi I am Japanese. I respect your attitude to knowledge. You are Chinese but keep a fair and neutral attitude to search for a fact. It is respectable. very much dude!
In my understanding, Yudane was obviously invented in Japan and the method was already established at least 40 – 50 years ago (or even before) among small private bakeries in my research. The patent of Yudane was registered by a big Japanese company in 2001 as well and the product in itself was sold around from 1998 Pasco. The Tangzhong came from a Taiwanese woman in 2007.
Some people don’t want to accept the simple fact that Taiwan, China, and Korea (and other some East Asian countries), are hugely influenced by Japan since they are longing for Japanese civilization. And bread-baking methodology as well. As you pointed out, the Taiwanese enjoy Japanese stuff and there is no wonder the Taiwanese woman took the idea of Yudane. The question is how she found out the method (over 65 degree method) suddenly out of nowhere, but she is not explaining well and it sounds she is hiding. The problem is even though it is nearly certain the Tangzhong is a copied (and just a bit modified) version of Yudane since she is not clarifying a satisfactory (academically proper) explanation, the topic in itself remains unclear so the Japanese side also cannot say strongly it is our origin. But intuitively & objectively, it is obvious.

By: Carlienne

Carlienne — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 19:39:59 +0000

In reply to Pseudonym. Ahh, ok thanks for sharing the Japanese translations! The Chinese is close but not quite the same, but it definitely seems to make more sense in Japanese than Chinese, etymologically. Thanks Pseudonym!

By: Pseudonym

Pseudonym — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 03:17:01 +0000

In reply to Carlienne. Etymologically, it almost certainly went from Japan to Taiwan as you noticed by the obvious loan-word nature in Chinese. In Japanese, 湯 means "hot water" and 種 is means "seed" which makes a lot more sense when you think about the function it serves in the baking process

By: Carlienne

Carlienne — Sat, 22 May 2021 17:50:43 +0000

In reply to Schehezerade. Hi Schehezerade, thanks for the info! I've not had much exposure to the Hainanese cuisine and was unaware that it utilizes a similar starter. I agree that it is not likely that any Chinese groups would adapt anything Japanese given their history. To my understanding, there's not definitive answer which technique came first, but there is still something to be said about the etymology. Fun stuff, thanks for sharing!

By: Schehezerade

Schehezerade — Sat, 22 May 2021 13:10:44 +0000

Your theory that tangzhong or yudane originated from Japan may be based on an erroneous assumption. This method of using precooked flour is used not in making bread by the Chinese, but in certain rice cakes (” Kueh”) made by some Chinese dialect groups. The dough for the traditional hainanese rice Kueh is made using this method and, since the hainanese still loathe the Japanese for their massacre of their population on Hainan Island during WWII, it is unlikely that they would ever have adapted any Japanese invention for their traditional cakes.